Last week, Leah Libresco’s blog on Patheos, Unequally Yoked, made an announcement that has caused considerable discussion around the Catholic blogosphere – and, I gather, the atheist blogosphere as well. In her last post on the Atheist portal, she explains the moment (over the weekend before Easter) at which she realised that her thoughts and research had brought her to past a decision point. Then she tells us what happened next.
After I changed my mind, I decided to take a little time to make sure I really believed what I thought I believed, before telling my friends, family, and, now, all of you. That left me with the question of what to do about my atheism blog. My solution was to just not write anything I disagreed with. Enough of my friends had accused me of writing in a crypto-Catholic style that I figured no one would notice if I were actually crypto-Catholic for a month and a half (i.e. everything from “Upon this ROC…” on) . That means you already have a bit of a preview of what has and hasn’t changed. I’m still confused about the Church’s teachings on homosexuality, I still need to do a lot of work to accept gifts graciously, and I still love steam engines.
Starting tomorrow, this blog is moving to the the Patheos Catholic channel (the url and RSS will remain unchanged). Meanwhile, I’m in RCIA classes at a DC parish, so you can look forward to more Parsing Catholicism tags (and after the discussion of universalism we had last week, I think it will be prudent to add a “Possibly Heretical” category).
In more recent posts, Leah responds to those who have commented on the reasons she has given for her conversion. I haven’t had time to read all the posts yet, let alone the comments, but I’m very much struck by a comment that she quotes in Wednesday’s post. Scott, an atheist commenter says:
If I were a weird quasi-Platonist virtue ethicist, converting to Catholicism would probably be my next step too. And if I were a weird quasi-Platonist Catholic, perhaps I would feel a need to follow virtue ethics. And if I were a quasi-Platonist virtue ethicist Catholic, I might well follow it up by becoming weird. So that’s one local maximum / attractor. And I’m pretty happy as a reductionist atheist consequentialist, so that’s a good local maximum too.
That raises the disturbing possibility that I and a conservative Catholic might be equally smart, know all the same arguments, and just have ended up at two different local maxima. And that we may both be totally justified in rejecting all individual arguments against our positions, while the only genuinely convincing argument – the entire worldview of the other person – is too complicated to fit in our brains at once.
Yes, exactly. That’s some of what I was driving at months ago in posts about iceberg thinking and realm of meaning knowledge.
Leah says:
…it’s part of the answer to the “Why Catholic?” question that people want me to tackle. I ended up pretty confident (for reasons that I’ll flesh out in other posts) that both atheism and Catholicism were local maxima in exactly the way Scott describes. This is also the precis of why I didn’t just pick a nice religion like Deism or UU or certain Protestantism, as some commenters have asked. I didn’t think they seemed coherent and consistent enough.
Yes, again.
We visited a newly atheist relative while we were up North. We stayed largely off the subject of religion till she raised it herself, and took offence when my beloved commented that we are all on our own journey. She indignantly proclaimed that she had reached her final destination; that her decision to leave the Church had been made on rational grounds after research into the basic facts. I don’t doubt for a moment that she made her decision only after long – and no doubt agonising – thought. Yet, as I pointed out to her, other people (myself among them) have carefully considered the same basic facts and drawn quite different and opposite conclusions. Who is to say that she is right and I am wrong (or, for that matter, that I am right and she is wrong)? At this point in our personal journeys, we are simply in different local maxima; standing – to use the analogy from Leah’s post – on different peaks.
I like the view from my peak, and I’m glad to the join the many others who welcome Leah up here with us.
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“… other people (myself among them) have carefully considered the same basic facts and drawn quite different and opposite conclusions. Who is to say that she is right and I am wrong (or, for that matter, that I am right and she is wrong)?”
It seems to Toad, that Catholics, for one, are to say that they are right and others wrong. As are Muslims, etc. Right or wrong, it’s what they do.
However, the point is that JP, quite rightly, is preaching the dreaded “relativism” here. And that other alternatives in this, or any metaphysical situation, are that both are right, or that both are wrong.
We just don’t know. And we probably never will. So we ought not to make categorical statements about metaphysical subjects.
Chris thinks that Catholics & Muslims are both right, that atheists and theists are both right, and that leaving the institutional Church may very well be God’s plan for some and therefore the right thing to do.
One doesn’t need to stand on one peak alone when it’s much more interesting to stand on multiple peaks simultaneously.
Why would God only dwell on one mountain ?
God Bless
To that one might reply in one or all of these ways:
1) God is “above” all mountains
2) God is the Mountain
3) God is the Only Mountain
4) God is found on all mountains
5) Mountains are found only in God
6) God is the Mountain beyond all categories
7) God is not a mountain
8) God is not.
And there are other possibilities.
Mountains are fascinating.
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Spot on, K!
The same could be said for molehills, of course.
Or even valleys.
The Red Queen tells Alice, “Why I’ve seen hills, compared with which, this would be a valley!”
Depends on how you look at it. I suppose.
Much the same as molehills, really.
And with the same ethical/logical result.
Because, if you are trying to ake a nice lawn, molehills are not all that desirable. Or all that fascinating.
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“One doesn’t need to stand on one peak alone when it’s much more interesting to stand on multiple peaks simultaneously.”
Well, Chris, on how many peaks you could stand simultaneously would depend on how many legs you have.
Also on whether your poor old groin could stand the strain, depending on how far apart each peak was.
But you would do just fine.
Thinks Toad.
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“One doesn’t need to stand on one peak alone when it’s much more interesting to stand on multiple peaks simultaneously.”
Interesting, indeed, Chris. But a bit tricky.
Be educational to see it done, though.
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We seem to have come to a standstill here. Is all well, JP? How is Mr. Mac? I worry about him.
Dear Toad,
Apologies for not thanking you sooner, and anyone who said a prayer for Mr.Mac Peter is home from hospital and seems to be doing quite well.He had a few mini-strokes while he was in hospital and is not allowed to drive until November… this has not gone down too well at all..
Old age is not always very kind is it … many thanks again,
Hope all is well with J.P.
Shalom
this is off topic but our Chris is being ordained Deacon next Saturday in at St Patrick’s Cathederal , lets keep him in our prayers,
as he would say,
God Bless
dOES ANYONE KNOW IF jp IS ALRIGHT?
How can anyone find out?
Greetings fellow atheists (well, we’re all atheists to some god(s), if not all) 😉
You’ll be pleased to hear that JP is alive and well and living in New Zealand. I have it on good authority that she is up to her ears in alligators at the moment (for alligators read grandchildren – same thing really!) and has her head buried deep inside her Kindle. Normal service will be resumed, as they say, as soon as possible
KA
Good to know 🙂 TY
TY V. much for the info 🙂
Thank you for that K A … am so glaed that she is alright.
shalom
I saw Leah’s story on CNN. Her story is compatible with the mission of Ashley McGuire who founded Alcatholicah.com which centers on gender and sexuality issues. Her blog is a response to the 21st century needs to promote the unyielding principles of our faith, particularly on issues of sexuality, in a way that help believers understand the charity behind each teaching. I’d love to see the two pair up, eventually.
See the logical difficulty ?
This weblog seems to have died. Sad. 😦
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“I’d love to see the two pair up, eventually.”
In what way, Sed?
Has this weblog died or something ?
Toad,
Catholics do not think they alone are right. Catholicism upholds truth where ever it is too be found even with atheists, and non-Catholics. Some Catholics are wrong where agnostics might be right.
The key word here is fullness of truth.
Leah spoke about how she was a crypto Catholic, her views on certain issues were very Catholic, but she had yet to understand the rest.
Would you rather be told that Satan has darkened your intellect so you cannot get in or would you rather be flattered than someone is trying to find common ground with you.
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Toad, along with everyone else on Joyful, has been frozen in mid-air for ages now.
Does anyone know if she is all right, or what?
It’s very disturbing. And not like her. He thinks.
I have it on good authority that JP is fine. There have been a couple of situations that she’s been dealing with recently, but there doesn’t seem to be any reason why she’s been AWOL for so long. I can only assume she’s decided that we atheists are right after all and is hurriedly making changes to her blog to account for the new paradigm 😉
KA
As of now it’s September 11.17 p.m, September 6 2012. And no Joyful.